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TANE Loading Commodities or Not


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6 risposte a questa discussione

#1 DennR

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Inviato 15 febbraio 2016 - 10:29

Good Morning,

 

I have been trying to make our sessions for both Donner Pass and Sherman Hill T:ANE ready and I encountered one very stubborn problem with Script errors when some trains load the cars with Instant Load Command.

 

I am now satisfied that it has nothing to do with the Instant Load Command by NS37 it is a problem in T:ANE.

 

It seems that during the development the developers have scaled back (reduced) the time allowed for loads to be added to cars.  This results in a timeout red bug error for all the cars that fail to load.  For some reason I think to do with the traincar.gs file the ARN do not appear for those cars that are not loaded.

 

I have done some tests and on short consists reducing the the number of commodities in the load queue for a car to 15 or less allows up to 60 cars to load every time.

 

The problem is in two parts one car with more that 50 commodities to choose from fails every time.

Long consists with cars that have a lot of commodities in load queues also fail but not every time.

 

I think we have to wait for the next Hotfix to see if N3V address this problem.


Messaggio modificato da DennR, 15 febbraio 2016 - 10:30

:ciao:

Ciao, Cheers, Best Regards
Bob
denningb@msn.com

Quando il gioco si fa duro; chiudere e andare alla taverna. :brindano:


#2 DennR

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Inviato 25 febbraio 2016 - 10:02

I have now been through a Bug Report process with N3V because of T:ANE producing time out and out of bounds errors in our sessions for Sherman Hill and Donner Pass.

 

Independent to the support desk Justin Cornell of Jointed Rail took an interest in this issue and summed up the issue very well and surprisingly accurately.

 

to Quote Justin

"Instant load can suffer from many different reasons, from how many traincars in the train executing the command to how many queues each car has but these problems did not happen in TS12 (even though it also has an ER_Timeout limit). If it takes too long to process the cars it gets cut off and ‘times-out’. Similarly for ARN the cause is usually the amount of running numbers it has to choose from – if it takes too long it gets ‘time-out’ as well. There are some more scripts I have seen this in, but in the end the process threshold just needs to be put back to where it was when we developed all of these scripts and stop tightening the belt on us. Things like ARN may never be fixed as they were created by authors that are no longer around."

 

 

I have now had the confirmation from N3V that the new limits means shorter freight trains and drastically reduced load queues for the freight cars we use.

This is the reply I received from the Bug Report I submitted: -

 

Thanks for your feedback. This has been passed to the development team for consideration. As a side note, there is always a reason for things to end up "broken". In this case, the script time-out issue relates to reducing the amount of stuttering that slow (and poorly written) scripts can cause. There are other elements being developed to assist script operations perform group tasks better, but that won't be overnight.

 

I am not sure how to measure "overnight" after all those of us who were in the Kickstarter have been using T:ANE in one of it's many versions since late 2014.  I make that about 400 "overnight s".

 

To cut to the chase TZ12 sessions in T:ANE most probably wont work due to ER_Timeout threshold limits and the fix may take some time.

waiting_zpsohdteprf.jpg


  • A FS Gr. 620 piace questo

:ciao:

Ciao, Cheers, Best Regards
Bob
denningb@msn.com

Quando il gioco si fa duro; chiudere e andare alla taverna. :brindano:


#3 DennR

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Inviato 27 febbraio 2016 - 11:29

I must be addicted to T:ANE I just cannot leave it alone.  Do I need therapy? :huh:

 

I have been doing a little searching through various assets and I now think that the majority of failures for consists to complete the loads from the Instant Load Command is not the number of commodities to be searched but the number of ARN to searched.

 

In my straw poll of DLS assets I have found an average of 11 loads for each car but very many more ANR, the average for the same cars averaging 11 loads is an average of 231 ARN numbers. I then thought about the TZ12 Donner Pass and Sherman Hill sessions where we have freight trains of 50 to 70 loadable pieces of rolling stock per train and maybe 10 freight trains that we use Instant load for. :paura:

 

Based on 60 cars that is 6600 loads to be searched and 138600 ARN to be searched on average so it is not surprising TZ12 stuttered and T:ANE turns up it's toes. :shock: 

 

I do not know if there is a compromise that we can achieve that will allow existing DLS rolling stock to be used in prototypical scenarios or if ARN is a thing of the past. :bho: 


:ciao:

Ciao, Cheers, Best Regards
Bob
denningb@msn.com

Quando il gioco si fa duro; chiudere e andare alla taverna. :brindano:


#4 normhart

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Inviato 27 febbraio 2016 - 05:36

The only therapy I've found is turning off the computer (that doesn't really work of course).

I've been troubled by the very short consists found in almost all sessions in TANE, now I know why. Hopefully there will be some form of solution. Is this only affecting instant load or do you find the same problem in industries that load car by car? I've done some limited tests in my current projects and the results are confusing, mostly due to the fact that I'm working with very old assets.

Messaggio modificato da normhart, 27 febbraio 2016 - 05:39


#5 DennR

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Inviato 27 febbraio 2016 - 06:43

Hi Norm,

 

Your assets are like me then' very old', I do not think an industry with a small number of loads should be a problem but if the industry is checking the load queue for each car then it could throw up an error.  The ER-timeout rule in T:ANE not only looks at loads but other scripts as well.  The most troublesome for me seems to be the ARN (Automatic Road Numbers), I have seen an instance of 9999 RN to choose from on one Hopper and there is no way that will pass the timeout test in T:ANE.

 

I can only offer the comment from the helpdesk 'There are other elements being developed to assist script operations perform group tasks better, but that won't be overnight.' as a little comfort in respect of the future for long consists with ARN.


Messaggio modificato da DennR, 27 febbraio 2016 - 06:43

:ciao:

Ciao, Cheers, Best Regards
Bob
denningb@msn.com

Quando il gioco si fa duro; chiudere e andare alla taverna. :brindano:


#6 normhart

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Inviato 28 febbraio 2016 - 06:01

ARN seems to mean a couple of things; one is any form of automatic road numbering (arn) or it can refer specifically to Wulf_9's ARN scrips and libraries and all the proprietary implementations of that. Auran/N3V seems to have implemented various forms of arn one time or another as have some of their affiliated programmers. JR has it's own, not to mention various Locomotive numbering schemes. When you throw things like Dap's CMTM system things begin to look quite messy.

I am wondering if at this point we might have enough individual rolling stock items to permit large consists without resorting to ARN or arn? In the Sherman Hill screenshot thread I posted a PFE consist that did not have a single duplicate rail car, many did have arn but I did not use them twice.

#7 DennR

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Inviato 28 febbraio 2016 - 07:06

Hi Norm,

 

The issue is complex and in T:ANE there is yet another variant of ARN this time titled 'Running Numbers' in the config file but an hour ago I posted the following message on one of the Beta Tester PM threads and it highlights the differences between previous Trainz and T:ANE.

 

 

I have now checked the config files of a selection of 'built in' and installed payware pieces of rolling stock.  What I have found is that the load count is between 10 and 30 loads in the load queues and the ARN are now in a section named 'running numbers' and they are all listed individually the RN's are always less than 100 some are 30.  Most of the built in assets have no list just a single RN allocated to the asset.

 

This is dramatically different from the samples I have checked on the DLS where 300 is not uncommon and 10,0000 are used one of the hoppers we use.  I cannot see a way of cutting that number down except by editing each config file but then we cannot publish based on DLS assets.

 

The loads are not a problem because they can be deleted and added in surveyor and they are saved in the session and the same load count is available to players who DL the sessions.  For my sessions I have 388 cars and I will build a couple of consists with manually input ARN and edited loads and see how they behave.

Carlo is also kindly translating something I wrote earlier base on a discussion with a script analyst who has been very helpful to for some time now.  the English version is as follows:-

 

I know T:ANE has little or no interest to the majority of TZIT members.  I do think it should be noted that of those simple minded few who have invested time in trying to understand why there are significant differences between TZ12, TS2 MAC and now T:ANE have arrived at the position we are in today.

What we have found is that T:ANE runs smoothly and has improved graphics over the previous versions of Trainz.  That said there are very important shortcomings in T:ANE that will have a big effect on the sessions that can be provided using DLS downloaded rolling stock.

There are two things in most items of rolling stock that have changed and that have an impact on session builders: -

  • The first is Automatic Road Numbering (ARN) managed by a code in Trainz called Numberit and the time allowed to search through those numbers set in the config file for the asset is now limited and when the time is exceeded a red bug script error appears. The Session also stops loading all the cars in the consist past the one that failed the ARN time limit.
  • The second is the error when loading cars with Instant Load Command, the error is nothing to do with the Command but is another time limt imposed in T:ANE.  The code that stops the loads from being searched is ER-Timeout.  When that red bug script error appears the ILCommand is stopped and the schedule for the train will not run, it is blocked by the timeout error.

Most of the Rolling stock on the DLS has been developed with the view that those aspects had no practical limit.  That was true until T:ANE but now we have the situation that the more trains we place in the session either on the track or in Portals the more of these errors we will encounter as the rolling stock is checked for ARN and again when the loading takes place.

The changes have been made in T:ANE with the best of intentions, to reduce the stuttering so common in earlier releases of Trainz and I cannot fault that reason.

The solutions seem to be: -

  • Smaller routes
  • Shorter sessions
  • Fewer trains
  • Shorter trains
  • Select only rolling stock with few or no ARN
  • Select only rolling stock with a small number of loads

The problem occurs when there are several consists that all emit at the same time from Portals and some consists on the tracks. It is the shear volume of assets to checked that stops T:ANE in it's tracks.  The Roseville Manifest session has 7 Un-portal 2's and one consist on the track all have instant load commands and the portals have 6 different trains in each so we see variety each time the session is started.  some never cause a problem and others only cause a problem sometimes but a couple fault every time they are emitted.


:ciao:

Ciao, Cheers, Best Regards
Bob
denningb@msn.com

Quando il gioco si fa duro; chiudere e andare alla taverna. :brindano:





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